Oh heavens yes.

Here in Boston, if you and I agree to meet at Mass Ave and Boylston Street at 9:30 AM three weeks from Thursday, that's it. It's done. Nothing more needs to be said, and barring force majeure, both of us will be at the corner of Mass and Boylston at 9:30 AM that day--actually, probably at 9:25 AM. (*)

If, for some reason--some LEGITIMATE reason--it becomes impossible that we meet that day, the afflicted party contacts the other to reschedule as soon as it becomes clear that's the case. The amount of apologizing this involves varies inversely with the time left until the moment we originally agreed to meet.

Meanwhile, in San Francisco, if two people agree to meet at 9:30 AM, one of them will show up at 10, and will call the other person at 10:15. When they eventually get through to them, it'll transpire that the missing party decided to go up to Napa that day. "But you never called me to confirm, so I figured we were off."

If you're saying to yourself right now "What's this 'called to confirm' nonsense?", well, that's just what I said to myself the first two or three times someone pulled this stunt on me.

I wouldn't say this is the only reason I decided to move back to the East Coast, but it's an important one.



(*) The one no-foul exception for lateness is if you take the Green Line (**), in which case it is also customary for the other person to ask what the hell you were thinking.

(**) The Green Line is one of Boston's three subway lines (***), the busiest light-rail line in the USA. It's also known for being the most likely to stop working for no reason, or to crash because the driver fell asleep or was texting his girlfriend (****).

(***) I know the MBTA's map shows five subway lines. The Blue Line is, as far as I can tell, merely a rumor, and the Silver Line is a bus that for political reasons is referred to as a subway.

(****) Yes, both of these have actually happened within the past few years.

Yes!

From an employer's standpoint I have two possible outcomes. I can ask someone to come in for an interview, they arrive, they either answer my phone call or return it within the day if I call to tell them they're hired, and on the prescribed day they're at the restaurant, carrying whatever I told them to bring.

That's Everywhere Else[tm]. In San Francisco this works a little different. My interview starts at 4pm, by 4:30 a sweaty dude carries his Fixie into the restaurant and waves a short apology about traffic being murder or something like that. We do the interview and if he's the least flaky, least sweaty, and most competent I get to call some Google Voice number and leave a message that may or may not be returned that week. If, for some reason, it is returned I'll put dollars to donuts that on his first day he'll be wearing his sweaty urban biker clothes and forgets his knife. He'll also be 30 minutes late.

San Franciscans don't call back. They're (small exceptions apply) also notoriously bad about keeping channels open. I love my SF friends dearly but if I don't randomly pop a "hey" into chat or email I never, ever, hear from them again. Well, unless they need a job or know someone who does. NY, Atlanta, Chicago, even LA, I never had this problem.

Within SF there seems to be this Cult of The Latest which is Always The Greatest. That means hell for restaurateurs because, unlike NYC for example, where "established" is a mark of quality, being yesterday's friend, trend, technology, music, tool, or place, means to be not the Greatest. If today's fun sport is Ultimate Frisbee you better hope that Thursday doesn't bring something new because you'll have flakes for Friday's game. If you're the buddy to hang with or the job to apply for this week you might not be next week.

That all works well if everyone is a San Franciscan and sways with the reeds like everyone else. Be an outsider or, Odin forbid, someone who depends on appointments and promises, and you'll be somewhat blubberghasted.

No, this is not at all normal elsewhere, certainly not outside the US.

Having moved here from Israel in 2002, the difference was very, very noticeable. I was used to "let's meet up on Friday" meaning "let's meet up on Friday", not "I will add you to my already oversubscribed list of options for Friday, and will choose whichever I feel like at the last minute".

Now, when I go back to Israel, I'm surprised when people consistently follow through on plans...

My observation has been that, in general (and obviously there are exceptions) Americans are more flaky than Europeans, Californians are more flaky than Americans, and San Franciscans are more flaky than Californians.

I suspect it may have something to do with the fact that people in SF are not grounded here. Very few people you meet here grew up here or will grow old here. SF is a playground for 20- and 30-somethings to have self-centered fun in a state of arrested development.

But in the back of everyone's mind is the day when they get married and move to the suburbs, or back to wherever-it-is-they-are-from. So we don't form lasting communities, just temporary mutual interest groups. And the level of commitment drops accordingly.

Once, in a moment of frustration, I wrote the following Yelp review:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/flaky-am...

I have, however, mostly learned to live with this. I try my best never to be that flaky, but I accept that when others are, it doesn't mean that they secretly don't like me. It's just how it is.

Finally, note that even Shakespeare must have been flaked on quite a bit. Here is part of Polonius's advice to Laertes, from Hamlet:

The friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade.

Oh, my god yes.

I've lived in the Bay Area for 7 years and I'm regularly aghast at the complete lack of even basic manners for keeping plans.

In the midwest (Cincinnati & Chicago, for me), if someone says they'll be somewhere at a certain time, even days or weeks in advance, they'll be there at that time (maybe, *maybe* 10 minutes after to be fashionably late because of traffic).  Past that, it's phone calls and apologies. 

Out here, good luck getting people to show up at all, much less remotely on time.

I even try to compensate -- If I know most of an expected crowd is "native", I will tell a host of the party/gathering that I will be a half hour (or more) late and when I arrive, I am still 90% of the time the first person there.  The rest of the time, when I'm not, it's another non-Californian who's beaten me there.

Ever notice how out here hosts of a party always seem to have WAY too much or too little food?  There's a reason for that, you know.  Elsewhere, when throwing a party you can *actually* pretty accurately calculate how much food you'll need for the group based on RSVPs.  It's not magic.

Gah.  This is seriously one of the most frustrating things about living out here.

(Note: I was sent the link to this thread by friends who know how much this annoys me.  And don't even get me started on trying to give things away on Craigslist out here.  How can people be *so bad* at receiving free stuff?)

Yes by far.

Here is an apples to apples comparison from the attitude to people in east coast/ Boston.

When I used to organize soccer games in Boston, I would tell people, and normally out 12 responses about 10-11 would show up (there would always be one or two missing).

When I organized soccer games in SF, out of 12 people, about 6 showed up.  That's half.


It sucks when not enough people show up as it would ruin the game for everybody.  This happened few times, so I learned to adjust to it and invite a lot more.   I had another friend from Michigan that had the same experience.


Also major differences:
It is easier to make new friends in SF/Bay Area.  It is much harder to that in Boston
Therefore people in here have more connections, but most of them are not that significant.

This can be part due to the weather, more stuff happening, or whatever.  But is really noticeable cultural trait of the people in this region.   You will have to get used to it, end eventually not invite the people that are flaking on you.

It may be a generational thing, and it may be a transient population thing, but people that are native to the Bay Area are, by and large, very well-mannered people.  We make and keep our appointments, we show up on time or early (usually early), but God forbid, if we are late for some reason beyond our control (due to a traffic accident, say, because we usually plan enough time for traveling because we know the area) you will receive an apology.

When we go to people's houses, we bring a host/hostess gift, and approximately two days later you will receive a "Thank You" note; this was drilled into us at a very young age.  We are not flaky people.

In fact, at a recent Quora party, some of us were discussing a "date flake-out rate", where someone quoted a no-show rate of 85%. He expounded that it was a "Pick-up-artist" numbers game, and that you just had to throw out enough invites to reel in the numbers you want. 

Are people in San Francisco more flaky than those in the rest of the country?

No.

Say you were in a place like Vegas, except it was a great big post-university area on the shores of California (albeit the cold Northern shore, but still...).  The best and brightest people showed up to hang out there/work there, and if they wanted to do something or date someone, there was always the opportunity for something or someone else to come along and distract them.  IMHO, you're looking at this small population of people and basing the "fruits and nuts" generalization to the entire area.  San Francisco, the Bay Area, and Silicon Valley wouldn't be the business powerhouse that generates billions of dollars in revenue, creates jobs, and fosters ideas and growth if it was such a "flaky" place.  This is regarding both work and recreation, because oftentimes they are not mutually exclusive; we work hard here, and we play hard, too. 

So yes, maybe for a certain younger segment of people or for people that don't have manners, being flaky is the norm. They may desire it to be acceptable behavior by acting out like this consistently, but it is really quite boorish and not representative of natives.