Why does France have a reputation for surrendering?
"Cheese-eating surrender monkeys"
9 Answers
23.5k Views • Upvoted by Yves Granger, I've been living in France forever • Bruce Bracken, I have lived in France for about 25 years out of 60. 1 out of 3 children born here. Also lived in U…
The reputation is propogated by Francophobes and those critical of France's foreign policy, almost always Americans. It's based on France's decision to surrender to Germany during the Second World War but there's cultural elements involved too. It's not really about how many wars France has won or lost.
There's two issues at play. Firstly, the historical setting - early in WW2, the French army and British Expeditionary Force were thoroughly beaten by German forces, the latter retreating back to Britain and leaving their French allies to fend for themselves (only the English Channel saved Britain from the initial panzer onslaught). Superior German air power negated the French artillery, their ground forces managed to skirt the main defensive line and, less than a month after their first battle, march into the undefended capital, Paris. It was such a military disaster that the Prime Minister, Paul Reynaud, was in favour of uniting Britain and France in order to continue the fight. The cabinet was opposed, Reynaud stepped down and was replaced by Marshal Pétain, who called for an armistice. Facing such a military goliath (one still keen on humiliating its WW1 adversary), there was clearly a good intention - to preserve as much of France and the lives of French people as possible - but in hindsight it turned out badly. Thus begins the tragic story of occupied France, one which still brings sadness and shame to its people today, particularly the deportation of Jewish people and others that the Nazis deemed undesirable, few of whom ever returned. The narrative in the US is quite different, however, and much more simple: the French surrendered when they could have kept fighting and America had to come to save them.
The second issue is a cultural miscommunication between French and American people which often leads to disagreement. As Hania Demai expertly explains in Why do some French people, especially among Europeans, seem to hate Americans with such passion?, critical thinking and debating are deeply engrained in the French culture and they will happily spend an evening heatedly arguing about an issue (often political) and still walk away with no bad blood between them. American culture places a higher value on loyalty (e.g. a buddy should have your back in a fight even if he thinks you were in the wrong) and in circumstances like the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the French trying to be discerning seemed to many Americans to be either disloyalty or an unwillingness to fight. France had been one of the first countries to join the coalition for the first Gulf War in 1990 but this new effort was widely believed in France to be too close to imperialism - a past which the country does not want to revisit - and so the war remained unpopular. Americans see a country that they helped when France could not help itself, and now does not repay the favour with their loyalty.
Each time France and the USA disagree on a matter of foreign policy, the derision over France's surrendering in WW2 gets trotted out, people conflate their military capitulation with this cultural prioritisation of critical thinking and arrive at the decision that surrendering and an unwillingness to go into battle is some part of the French national character.
There's two issues at play. Firstly, the historical setting - early in WW2, the French army and British Expeditionary Force were thoroughly beaten by German forces, the latter retreating back to Britain and leaving their French allies to fend for themselves (only the English Channel saved Britain from the initial panzer onslaught). Superior German air power negated the French artillery, their ground forces managed to skirt the main defensive line and, less than a month after their first battle, march into the undefended capital, Paris. It was such a military disaster that the Prime Minister, Paul Reynaud, was in favour of uniting Britain and France in order to continue the fight. The cabinet was opposed, Reynaud stepped down and was replaced by Marshal Pétain, who called for an armistice. Facing such a military goliath (one still keen on humiliating its WW1 adversary), there was clearly a good intention - to preserve as much of France and the lives of French people as possible - but in hindsight it turned out badly. Thus begins the tragic story of occupied France, one which still brings sadness and shame to its people today, particularly the deportation of Jewish people and others that the Nazis deemed undesirable, few of whom ever returned. The narrative in the US is quite different, however, and much more simple: the French surrendered when they could have kept fighting and America had to come to save them.
The second issue is a cultural miscommunication between French and American people which often leads to disagreement. As Hania Demai expertly explains in Why do some French people, especially among Europeans, seem to hate Americans with such passion?, critical thinking and debating are deeply engrained in the French culture and they will happily spend an evening heatedly arguing about an issue (often political) and still walk away with no bad blood between them. American culture places a higher value on loyalty (e.g. a buddy should have your back in a fight even if he thinks you were in the wrong) and in circumstances like the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the French trying to be discerning seemed to many Americans to be either disloyalty or an unwillingness to fight. France had been one of the first countries to join the coalition for the first Gulf War in 1990 but this new effort was widely believed in France to be too close to imperialism - a past which the country does not want to revisit - and so the war remained unpopular. Americans see a country that they helped when France could not help itself, and now does not repay the favour with their loyalty.
Each time France and the USA disagree on a matter of foreign policy, the derision over France's surrendering in WW2 gets trotted out, people conflate their military capitulation with this cultural prioritisation of critical thinking and arrive at the decision that surrendering and an unwillingness to go into battle is some part of the French national character.
France has essentially lost all of the conflicts it has engaged since WW2. It surrendered to Germany, then surrendered to the Vietnamese at Dien Bien Phu, then lost its main colonial possessions in Indochina and Algeria.
Even in its era of military dominance (Napoleon) France ended up on the losing side with the final defeat against a British / Prussian force.
Military defeat in itself doesn't necessarily means a country will get a bad reputation (see Germany), but in the case of France it gives fodder to the Francophobes in both Great Britain (where they are many) and the US. They use it as a way to get back at France's independent posture it has taken since the days of De Gaulle and which at times turned almost hostile, such as during the Iraq War.
These elements are irked by France's position and have used the argument of military cowardice as a way to get back at it.
Even in its era of military dominance (Napoleon) France ended up on the losing side with the final defeat against a British / Prussian force.
Military defeat in itself doesn't necessarily means a country will get a bad reputation (see Germany), but in the case of France it gives fodder to the Francophobes in both Great Britain (where they are many) and the US. They use it as a way to get back at France's independent posture it has taken since the days of De Gaulle and which at times turned almost hostile, such as during the Iraq War.
These elements are irked by France's position and have used the argument of military cowardice as a way to get back at it.
- France surrenders to the Allies 1814 in the Napoleonic Wars
- France surrenders to the Allies 1815 in the Napoleonic Wars
- Abandoning the puppet Empire of Mexico in 1867 after the US put pressure on them. Maximilian I of Mexico
- France surrenders to Germany in 1870 in the Franco-Prussian War
- France Surrenders to Germany in 1940 in the Battle of France
There seems to be form
Americans may not have a good appreciation of how France prioritizes its own military history.
The loss of Algeria in what France still considers a civil war still tends to roil up the French right wing. Vietnam isn't talked about too much.
WWII is all glory with la résistance triumphing over the occupants. And France is essentially correct in asserting that it defeated Germany in WWI.
The loss of Algeria in what France still considers a civil war still tends to roil up the French right wing. Vietnam isn't talked about too much.
WWII is all glory with la résistance triumphing over the occupants. And France is essentially correct in asserting that it defeated Germany in WWI.
I dont read much about war and I dont read much about French history. I can only comment on france surrender on ww2. Well if you look at geographical wise. France is neighbour of German. And their military can invade France by land easily. They shared hundreds of miles of borders, and it is very hard to control hundreds in fact thousand s of miles of borders from any invasion. England is separated by sea from the rest of Euurope, and geographically speaking, it is the very corner of Europe. So it is definitely the last place, in which German decided to invade, and the toughest place to invade since they are seperated by sea. Plus, without the help of America, I believe England would have lost the war to Germany. They we're just lucky that German act out of stupidity to invade Russia at time where they should have wait and also American started to increase its military presence in Europe at a time when Russia is aligning with the allies. Without this luck, England too would suffer a humiliating loss. I mean lets face it, German war technology at that time was far more advenced then Britain. They will lose without Russia and US
